Cleopatra

[Lady Bastille]

Not talking about the movies here, but the real Cleopatra.

The problem I'm having is that there are two sides to her:

1) She was considered one of the most beautiful women in the world at the time.
2) She was not beautiful; she was dark (as in niggerish) and ugly.

The second point is one that the libtards have been pushing for a while, and it has popped up on the Horseshit (History) Channel for quite some time. What I'm asking is for any books/Internet sites worth looking at to dispel popular myths of her. Would you kindly help me? I'd like some recommendations.

[Shoogafoot Jones]

From everything I have seen, she was not a beauty.

Cicero rather unkindly states "Her figure is anything other than voluptuous, and her face is marred not merely by the inbred Ptolemy hooked nose, but by a strong chin and hard features which detract from the sweetness and gentleness we prize in our women" (but he clearly hated her).

It is conflicting on her looks. There is a coin that has recently surfaced that shows her on one side, Mark Antony on the other...And she is really fugly. They also claim because the coin was not minted on gold, that is a hint that she was no looker.

Try this; Also, type in "Was Cleopatra Beautiful" on Yahoo. A lot of sites come up.

http://www.ancientegyptonline.co.uk/...ra-beauty.html

[Lady Bastille]

From everything I have seen, she was not a beauty.

Cicero rather unkindly states "Her figure is anything other than voluptuous, and her face is marred not merely by the inbred Ptolemy hooked nose, but by a strong chin and hard features which detract from the sweetness and gentleness we prize in our women" (but he clearly hated her).

It is conflicting on her looks. There is a coin that has recently surfaced that shows her on one side, Mark Antony on the other...And she is really fugly. They also claim because the coin was not minted on gold, that is a hint that she was no looker.

Try this; Also, type in "Was Cleopatra Beautiful" on Yahoo. A lot of sites come up.

http://www.ancientegyptonline.co.uk/...ra-beauty.html

Ah. Thanks.

[Mr. Sandman]

I don't know of any books per se, but I've read a few snippets of famous writers of the time. When it comes to Cicero, we must consider the source. He clearly didn't like her attitude from the first moment they met, and his chauvinism was particularly threatened by that highly intelligent and crafty woman. Most of all, her sexually based alliances with an emperor and would-be emperor were completely against the orderly republic he wanted Rome to return to. For those reasons, I've never doubted that Cleopatra was physically attractive, not just seductive, at least to Caesar and Mark Antony.

Plutarch said her physical beauty was not "incomparable," but not certainly not ugly. Combined with her linguistic talents, she could draw men to her. Similarly, I've known women who others didn't think were knockouts, but they had smiles and charm that could have me kissing the ground they stood on. Maybe Cleopatra's facial features were unique enough for the time that she drew attention. I'm a guy who thinks Jessica Alba is so plain as to be dismissed without a second thought, gags over anyone thinking Jennifer Lopez was ever attractive, will go to his deathbed believing the new Charlie's Angels have nothing on the originals (especially Jaclyn Smith), and wonders what the hoopla is over Anne Hathaway.

[ambition_def]

Looking at the busts and the coins makes me think she was rather average if not below average. Potentially aged very badly which happens with prominent features. I could see some ridicule in that which may have been lost in translation. For all we know the bust itself may have come from a similar (but better looking) servant as the coin and the bust don't match too well.


There is a point to make however in that aesthetics vary. Especially where human attraction is concerned. A proper husky female voice and some notion of autonomy does wonders for some guys. Perhaps enough to overcome an absence of a feminine appearance. Cicero at least made the commentary that she was unlike soft women he'd been with. It could be he enjoyed the intellectually challenged model with big curious eyes and a heavy bosom.

[Lady Bastille]

I don't know of any books per se, but I've read a few snippets of famous writers of the time. When it comes to Cicero, we must consider the source. He clearly didn't like her attitude from the first moment they met, and his chauvinism was particularly threatened by that highly intelligent and crafty woman. Most of all, her sexually based alliances with an emperor and would-be emperor were completely against the orderly republic he wanted Rome to return to. For those reasons, I've never doubted that Cleopatra was physically attractive, not just seductive, at least to Caesar and Mark Antony.

Plutarch said her physical beauty was not "incomparable," but not certainly not ugly. Combined with her linguistic talents, she could draw men to her. Similarly, I've known women who others didn't think were knockouts, but they had smiles and charm that could have me kissing the ground they stood on. Maybe Cleopatra's facial features were unique enough for the time that she drew attention. I'm a guy who thinks Jessica Alba is so plain as to be dismissed without a second thought, gags over anyone thinking Jennifer Lopez was ever attractive, will go to his deathbed believing the new Charlie's Angels have nothing on the originals (especially Jaclyn Smith), and wonders what the hoopla is over Anne Hathaway.

I see. The popular take is that she was horribly ugly, but the primary resources could dispel this.

[Thin White Duke]

I don't know of any books per se, but I've read a few snippets of famous writers of the time. When it comes to Cicero, we must consider the source. He clearly didn't like her attitude from the first moment they met, and his chauvinism was particularly threatened by that highly intelligent and crafty woman. Most of all, her sexually based alliances with an emperor and would-be emperor were completely against the orderly republic he wanted Rome to return to. For those reasons, I've never doubted that Cleopatra was physically attractive, not just seductive, at least to Caesar and Mark Antony.

Plutarch said her physical beauty was not "incomparable," but not certainly not ugly. Combined with her linguistic talents, she could draw men to her. Similarly, I've known women who others didn't think were knockouts, but they had smiles and charm that could have me kissing the ground they stood on. Maybe Cleopatra's facial features were unique enough for the time that she drew attention. I'm a guy who thinks Jessica Alba is so plain as to be dismissed without a second thought, gags over anyone thinking Jennifer Lopez was ever attractive, will go to his deathbed believing the new Charlie's Angels have nothing on the originals (especially Jaclyn Smith), and wonders what the hoopla is over Anne Hathaway.

Interesting points. I had a history professor tell me that Cleopatra was considered not very good looking, but was sort of smart and "cool" and would shoot bows and arrows and was sort of like "one of the guys," and was still able to have an influential personality and draw people to her despite not being attractive. Also, she was Greek and not a fucking nigger.