question on civil war movies

[whiteshadow]

Are there ANY films out there on the civil war, that show in full detail, the actual events done to the south when sherman did his infamous march?I've read, that his men knew that citizens would bury their gold in their gardens, & have men take long poles to stick in them to find,dig up, and "confuscate" their last wealth.Also so were livestock confuscated. On top of that, dead animals were dumped in wells to poisen them for a century ,more or less.Houses burned, as were crops .Rapes, beatings, killings. Total war,on a level equal to any thing done in the 20th century. The objective was to SO terorize the civilians, that they NEVER would dare to try again to succeed!To most in the north,the attitude is "they lost,get over it" as well as "they started it,& deserved everthing they got, cause they were evil slave owners,as well as traitors,yada yada yadda."Back in 1915, such a film could have been made,but not today,that showed the hard ugly truth,of what were in reallity,major war crimes.

[Cyberman]

"Glory" hints at it. "So does Gone with the Wind." "God's and Generals" Hints at the rapine and pillaging ways of the Yankees also, But other than that, no. The Yankees were the spiritual forefathers of the modern Yankee/Commie/Lib/Nigger Lover phenomena. So they will never show either Lincoln, the Union Army, or the Generals who led it in a bad light. You may not be interested in the Trans-Mississippi Theater, But; "Outlaw Josie Wales." and "Ride with the Devil." show the cruel nature of the Unionists. As an aside, "Yankees" don't hate the South because it's filled with "Ignorant", "Illiterate," "Redneck", racist savages. They hate it because it has managed to resist the Stalinism that has taken over the Northeast and because it has preserved a great deal of what was true and good and noble about America.

[Cyberman]

!
To most in the North,the attitude is "They lost, get over it" as well as; "They started it, and deserved everything they got, cause they were evil slave owners,as well as traitors,yada yada yadda.

Off Topic a little but;

A View of the Yankee People
by a Confederate officer captured at Gettysburg, writing to some friends
on another subject when his mind turned to the Yankees.

"They believed their manners and customs more enlightened, their intelligence and culture immeasurably superior. Brim-full of hypocritical cant and puritan ideas, they preach, pray and whine. The most parsimonious of wretches, they extol charity; the most inveterate blasphemers, they are the readiest exporters; the worst of dastards, they are the most shameless boasters; the most selfish of man, they are the most blatant philanthropists; the blackest-hearted hypocrites, they are religious fanatics. They are agitators and schemers, braggarts and deceivers, swindlers and extortioners, and yet pretend to Godliness, truth, purity and humanity. The shibboleth of their faith is, "The union must and shall be preserved", and they hold on to this with all the obstinacy peculiar to their nature. They say that we are a benighted people, and are trying to pull down that which God himself built up. "Many of these bigots express great astonishment at finding the majority of our men could read and write; they have actually been educated to regard the Southern people as grossly illiterate, and little better than savages. The whole nation lives, breathes and prospers in delusions; and their chiefs control the spring of the social and political machine with masterly hands. "I could but conclude that the Northern people were bent upon the destruction of the South. All appeared to deprecate the war, but were unwilling to listen to a separation of the old union. They justified the acts of usurpation on the part of their government, and seem submissive to the tyranny of its acts on the plea of military necessity; they say that the union is better than the Constitution, and bow their necks to the yoke in the hope of success against us. A great many, I believe, act from honest and conscientious principles; many from fear and favor; but the large majority entertained a deep-seated hatred, envy and jealousy towards the Southern people and their institutions. They know (yet they pretend not to believe it) that Southern men and women are their superiors in everything relating to bravery, honesty, virtue and refinement, and they have become more convinced of this since the present war; consequently, their worst passions have become aroused, and they give way to frenzy and fanaticism. We must not deceive ourselves; they are bent upon our destruction, and differ mainly in the means of accomplishing this end. However, much as sections and parties that hate each other, yet, as a whole, they hate us more. They are so entirely incongruous to our people that they and their descendants will ever be our natural enemies."

[Mad Max]

There was a show on the history channel that showed the brutality that southern troops indured at a northern prison camp...thousands died of starvation and desease.

In the town I was born in, Danville, Va. there was a prison camp and in the Civil war cemetary there is a grave and head stone for each Northerner that died while in captivity or was killed in battle. We treated or enemy as another human and not animals like we were treated. Even today these graves are kept up and treated with dignity for an enemy that didn't defeat us but, rather just wore us out!


::cnflg

[Massa Charlie]

The so-called Civil War — better known down South as The War of Northern Aggression, which it was — saw atrocities on both sides, and I won't pretend it didn't happen. What you saw on TV was probably about Camp Douglas in Chicago, where about 7,000 Confederate prisoners died of starvation, disease, and exposure over a 3-year period.

Compare that to the abomination called Andersonville prison in Georgia, where about 13,000 Union prisoners died in about a year. Reading about Camp Douglas will make you mad, but reading about Andersonville will make you fucking sick. And I say that as a nigger-hating Son of the South.

We're talking about some truly barbaric things that Human Beings did to each other. There were 50,000 deaths in POW camps during the Civil War... and that's just in POW camps. The combat fatalities were in the hundreds of thousands.

But the important thing to remember about The Civil War is that it was not about slavery. President Lincoln said and wrote on numerous occasions that this fucking war was not about freeing the goddamned nigger slaves. In fact, the nigger slave was way down on Lincoln's list of priorities. Lincoln said many times that his foremost objective was restoring the Union, but that goal was never contingent upon the freedom of nigger slaves.

Rather, the issue of slavery was used as a political excuse, to give the North the moral high ground... The North needed the South much more than the South needed the North, which is why the North launched the war in the first place — to destroy Southern States' Rights, to put down Southern independence, and to place the South's agricultural resources and commerce under the control of the Federal Government.

It was The War of Northern Aggression. It was an obviously unconstitutional war. It was a war of the Federal Government walking all over States' Rights and killing American citizens for material gain.

Well... Of course, that's not how they wanted to be remembered, so they poured on the propaganda about freeing the slaves — and most of that propaganda was introduced in the years and decades after the war. I mean, when I was a kid in grade school, they taught me that The Civil War was about the "good" North fighting the "evil" South in order to free the slaves.

It took me many years to unlearn that bullshit propaganda. When you realize that whole generations of Americans were brainwashed with that historical revisionism, just to justify an unconstitutional war that killed more Americans than any war before or since, and knowing that so many good and brave men rotted to death in POW camps right in their own country because of the Federal Government's greed... Well... It's enough to make your blood boil.

:hnk

[cherryblossom]

In ref. to Anderson & other Southern camps please remember we had no choice..our men had no food/supplies for themselves much less any prisoners.

We had honor & the worst mistake made between the war of the states as we call it here was that the north did not kill every Southerner..we will always remember.

I mean no offense to anyone but really how would things be now if the South had won? I know I have to be so careful what I say but if I am banned for saying this then I do not belong here anyway.

The south has been punished for so long,just imagine being called racist because your a white woman in the South & refused to be pc & bullied into dating nigger males..always called hicks & we do have all of our teeth!

In a way I will be happy when whites become the minority,the strong survive & I will leave it at that.

I hate niggers with a passion & I hate the whites that enable them just as much..niggers are violent & should be held accountable.-nigwhip

[Massa Charlie]

Pardon me, I got off on one of my righteous rants and neglected to address the topic — specifically, the existence of any films that portray the brutality of Sherman's March and the wholesale destruction of the South.

In a word, no, I can't think of any film dramatizations or documentaries that accurately depict the mindless savagery and barbarism of the Union forces.

The closest I think anyone has ever come to presenting the truth of the matter was Ken Burns in his 9-part documentary The Civil War, but this was only because the great bulk of the script was taken verbatim from Civil War-era diaries and letters. There are, of course, interviews with many preeminent Civil War historians, but they aren't debating the politics of the war — they're merely commenting on this and that incident and fleshing-out the personalities of notable participants. They're not judging the participants, simply reporting on them.

The overall effect of Ken Burns' The Civil War is that of a melancholy bedtime story, where everyone loses to the ravages of war. It definitely targets the emotions, but leaves you wanting somebody to take responsibility for the fucking carnage. By the time you plow through the whole film, you want something in return for your attention, but the final score is Union 0, Confederacy 0.

To me, that just doesn't capture the goddamned outrage that the South has felt toward the North for the last 143 years. No film to-date has captured that nor even tried to portray it, except in stereotypical characterizations — like, an Old Colonel down on his mossy plantation, shaking his cane in the air and vowing that The South Shall Rise Again! They always present such characters as kind of a pathetic, pitiable souls who just can't let go of the past.

And, boy, don't you fucking know that the Federal Government wants us to let go of the past and forget all that terrible shit. They especially want us to forget The Confederacy as a rebellion of true Patriots against an oppressive and brutal central government.

:hnk

[Massa Charlie]

In a way I will be happy when whites become the minority,the strong survive & I will leave it at that.

Pardon, Cherryblossom, but I'm not sure I follow how Whites becoming a minority has anything to do with the survival of the fittest.

I know you're keying on that U.S. Census story that projected a Caucasian minority by 2050, but let's put that story in perspective — it was talking about Mexican and Asian populations almost tripling in America, due not to increased reproduction rates, but to our open borders.

In that same story, it said that the nigger population would grow to about 15% of the national population by 2050. It's only 14% right now, suggesting that the niggers are stagnating as a species. Not surprising, given their genetic inability to adapt.

The Census story made it sound as though the White population was on the decline, but that's not the case at all. In spite of the booming influx of illegal aliens and legal immigrants, the White population will still dominate all aspects of American culture — because we are the most adaptable and creative species that ever arose on this planet, and we sign the paychecks.

:hnk

[Coonbatter]

If you are looking for a movie to watch "Birth of a Nation" made in 1915 is the one. This is before PC and white guilt education were implemented in our schools.

One of the most important and technically advanced films of all time, famed American film pioneer, D.W. Griffith's The Birth of a Nation is well renowned not only for its brilliant cinematography, innovative editing, and superb acting, but also because of its racist portrayal of African Americans and sympathetic depiction of the Ku Klux Klan. Featured on AFI's list of "Best Films of the 20th Century." Includes collectible poster.

http://technopedia.info/store/shop.php?c=3&n=443152&k=Delta&t=Publisher&s=sr&p=1

[OPERA96]

There was a show on the history channel that showed the brutality that southern troops indured at a northern prison camp...thousands died of starvation and desease.

Ever hear of Andersonville? If not, look it up. Both sides committed their share of atrocities, which can be said about EVERY ARMY THAT HAS EVER FOUGHT IN ANY WAR in the history of the human race. That's the way war is - always has been - always will be.

[Cyberman]

Ever hear of Andersonville? If not, look it up. Both sides committed their share of atrocities, which can be said about EVERY ARMY THAT HAS EVER FOUGHT IN ANY WAR in the history of the human race. That's the way war is - always has been - always will be.

I think it has more to do with the fact that it was Americans, Who did it to each other. Also, at that time, because of emerging international(Western) sentiments and attempts to limit the cruelty of war by law, Sherman's actions were seen as outrageous. Before that time and after, such behavior was, and is.,Par for the course. A lot of people have the feeling that if the Federal Government could do it then, they can do it now. It's the idea of US doing it to OURSELVES that outrages.

[cherryblossom]

Actually what I was ref. about whites being the minority is the FACT that we do not reproduce at the alarming rate minorities now do..niggers spit their offspring out like humans have bowel movements every day-fact.

I guess we were busy working providing for our children to have better lives instead of sucking tax money from the middle class to pay for niggers & their niglets to have shelter & food without working.

Yes I hate knowing we were subjugated by people that wanted us exterminated! And I hate knowing that part of the money me & mine work so hard for goes in part to support niggers I do not even know & have no desire to know..my tax dollars & yours support niglets we had no part in bringing into the world.

Unless you have walked in a TRUE Southerners shoes so to say there is no way one can comprehend what it is like being forced to live by federal rule/law that has told us for over a century that niggers are our equal.

I hate niggers & the whites that have put them in power-I hope they all burn & I wish I could practice my aim on their backs!

Just remember that history is wrote by the winners-which was the North-try visiting some of our furnaces here in the South & see/read the REAL history of what was done to us..and the Union even raped & killed the niggers they supposedly were liberating.

Whether one likes it or not..Southerners have been forced to live by others laws/rules because we lost-that is difficult even now to say that word..lost.

I have even been told if I did not like the way things are in the United States of America to leave..hell we tried & look what happened.

What is happening now has been a long time coming & I meant what I said about the strong survive-we KNOW what it takes to control these niggers.

Going to watch some videos now & read you guys bashing niggers..makes me laugh & makes me proud of all of you.-nigwhip-nigwhip

[Massa Charlie]

Actually what I was ref. about whites being the minority is the FACT that we do not reproduce at the alarming rate minorities now do..niggers spit their offspring out like humans have bowel movements every day-fact.

Yet the U.S. Census projections don't show that. Niggers can't (and won't) ever overtake Human Beings in population. Niggers are a permanent minority because, while they breed all the time, they also have a shorter lifespan. Niggers cannot adapt to climate and terrain the way Human Beings do, because they are an inferior species — they suffer cardiovascular weaknesses and diseases that Human Beings never have to worry about.

So, although niggers fuck like raccoons, they're also dropping like flies. Which is why their population is essentially stagnating. Praise Jesus.

Also, I and many others here are hardcore Southerners, and we're well acquainted with the Truth behind the Civil War. One thing a Southerner never admits is defeat, because we were not defeated in the Civil War — we're still here, and we're still mad as hell. Which scares the shit out of the Federal Government and the nigger minority.

:hnk

[Dirtydan]

Check out "The Civil War" by Ken Burns. It was on PBS a while back. You can buy the six part series on DVD for around $80.00. It is by far the best account of the war on film you can buy.

[Massa Charlie]

Check out "The Civil War" by Ken Burns. It was on PBS a while back. You can buy the six part series on DVD for around $80.00. It is by far the best account of the war on film you can buy.

It's actually a 9-part series. I mentioned it earlier.

:hnk

[Mad Max]

I am well aware of Andersonville and admittedly there were atrocities committed by both sides of the war. At the end of the war the southerners were starving and broke, the crops had been either destroyed or confiscated by the north, and when you have to choose between feeding you and yours, you will always feed your own. The point I tried to make was that not all POW camps were run with brutality and not all southern camps were run like or forced to run like Andersonville.....our cemetery proves southerners tried to be compassionate to its enemy and showed compassion even in death. In the prison camp in Danville some prisoners were taken to the homes of guards and locals to be fed each day and were given the same meal as their jailers. At the end of the war when Davis fled to Danville and then fled farther south after Lee surrenderd, the Danville prisoners were put on trains to Richmond and set free...not left to get north anyway they could.



::cnflg

[Massa Charlie]

And there's further evidence that the South was more compassionate than the North... Immediately following the war, Southern women started an annual tradition of going to the graveyards and decorating the grave sites of all fallen soldiers — Confederate soldiers and Union alike. This was the origin of Decoration Day, to commemorate the war dead, a holiday that was later hijacked by the North and re-named Memorial Day.

There are still a great many people down here in the South who strongly resent the fact that the North ripped off Decoration Day, stealing it as they had stolen everything else from the South. In fact, many school districts down here do not acknowledge Memorial Day as a holiday. We remember the dead in our own way, but we don't take part in the Northern observance.

Lhnk

[Gnome Sayin]

It's one thing to be offended by the historical revisionism by the 'yankees' (I'm from Indiana so I suppose that makes me one technically), but it's another to replace that revisionism and romanticize the South during this period. I'm sure that had Lee won the battle of Gettysburg, some Northeastern cities would have been sacked. Probably not in the same manner or severity as Georgia, but I don't envision Confederate soldiers being these perfect gentlemen trotting along on horseback.

War turns people into barbarians, especially civil wars. And that's how you win them.

[Old Empire]

There was a history channel special about the burning of Atlanta and some of what happened (They also burned several other smaller towns as well). They don't tell EVERYTHING that the witless northern morons did to the South, which I expected.

[Coonbatter]

My opinion is Ken Burns is a left leaning, progressive who has now endorsed Osambo. His pieces on WWII & Civil war as far as I'm concerned were biased and whiny and didn't thruthfully depict either. He has an agenda.

He is just setting up to do Osambo's bio down the road.

http://hotair.com/archives/2007/12/18/documentary-film-maker-ken-burns-endorses-obama/

http://www.portlandtribune.com/features/story.php?story_id=118365894743019500

my 2 cents

[cherryblossom]

It's one thing to be offended by the historical revisionism by the 'yankees' (I'm from Indiana so I suppose that makes me one technically), but it's another to replace that revisionism and romanticize the South during this period. I'm sure that had Lee won the battle of Gettysburg, some Northeastern cities would have been sacked. Probably not in the same manner or severity as Georgia, but I don't envision Confederate soldiers being these perfect gentlemen trotting along on horseback.

War turns people into barbarians, especially civil wars. And that's how you win them.

There was nothing Civil about that war..also imo Southerners were more gentile than the Union. But as many say that war is over & done. We just wanted to be left alone..not rule the world.

We were at a Confederate graveyard just today & some niggers (sure it was niggers) had destroyed some of the headstones. I got some charcoal & Paper rubbed over some of the names & dates to preserve.

Oh I was going to stay on topic & say that Gone with the Wind is still imo a good portrayal of that war & those times in Americas history.

General Lee surrendered not the Southern people as a whole-he did it because he knew we were defeated even though OUR men had no shoes,food,supplies etc..they were still willing to fight to the death. Gen. Lee saved what was left of the South.

I hope sherman is burning right now in hell-read about his book (Memoirs) he wrote in the late 1800's after the war. ::cnflg

[Dirtydan]

It's actually a 9-part series. I mentioned it earlier.

:hnk

I stand Corrected. There are nine parts :suicide

1. The Cause
2. A Very Bloody Affair
3. Forever Free
4. Simply Murder
5. The Universe of Battle
6. Valley of the Shadow of Death
7. Most Hallowed Ground
8. War is All Hell
9. The Better Angels of Our Nature

[Massa Charlie]

It's one thing to be offended by the historical revisionism by the 'yankees'... but it's another to replace that revisionism and romanticize the South during this period.

Well, from where I'm sitting, I don't blame the North so much as I blame the Federal Government for starting the biggest war that killed the most Americans in our nation's history. The central government seriously overstepped its constitutional powers by attacking the Southern States, initiating a slaughter unlike anything we've seen on American soil before or since.

And then, pouring salt into the wounds for decades thereafter, the Federal Government mandated the teaching of lies in our public school system, in effect characterizing the Confederate States as a land of primitive, slavery-loving, trigger-happy, bloodthirsty, un-American hillbillies.

As I mentioned earlier, I was taught in grade school 40 years ago that the North was "good" and the South was "evil" in the Civil War. We were taught that the War was all about slavery, and that the South was the fucking unholy home of slavery. And we were taught that the most dastardly, cowardly bastard of all was a Confederate motherfucker named John Wilkes Booth, who smote down the great and god-like nigger-liberator Abraham Lincoln.

Growing up in the South, having this bullshit preached in government schools was depressing as hell. I mean, here we were just little kids feeling guilty about being from the South because our ancestors kept slaves and killed Abraham Lincoln a century earlier.

We were never taught that Abraham Lincoln didn't actually give a flying fuck about the nigger slaves, which was the truth. We were never taught that the Confederacy was made up of patriots who believed the Federal Government was stomping on the Constitution, which was and still is the truth.

So it's not the North, per se, that really twists my guts into a knot — it's the goddamned lies and the propaganda employed by the government for more than a fucking century after the fact to portray the South as backwards and barbaric. The North hasn't suffered under that sort of stigma.

:hnk

[Mad Max]

PC textbooks and history want to blame slavery as the only reason the South went to war but, they can't explain why the people seceded and so many took up arms when there was only a small percentage of southerners that actually owned the basturds. When the war started slavery had already run its coarse and the slave owners were looking for a way to get rid of the niggers for economic reasons. It would have been cheaper to pay a salary for work than to pay to house, cloth, feed and give medical care to the niggers. After the war there was no job shortage for whites who wanted to work.

::cnflg

[Gnome Sayin]

So it's not the North, per se, that really twists my guts into a knot — it's the goddamned lies and the propaganda employed by the government for more than a fucking century after the fact to portray the South as backwards and barbaric. The North hasn't suffered under that sort of stigma.

:hnk

That I agree with. It wasn't until college until I realized what a Constitutional travesty that Lincoln unleashed on the US. Niggers would riot if they opened a history book and learned what Lincoln REALLY thought about them. But American history is filled with half truths, and I suspect it is because we 'dumb down' history classes for children. The puritans who landed at Plymouth Rock weren't so much 'pilgrims' as they were kicked out of Britain for starting a bloody civil war themselves. And I really do feel bad that Southerners have to deal with being called rednecks and hillbillies by the culture at large. It's politically incorrect to be a white, patriotic Southerner.

However, I don't believe for a second that the Confederacy wouldn't have behaved much like the Union did had they been more successful in the war.

[Coonbatter]

Just heard it announced that Ken Burns put together the tribute video to Teddy Kennedy for the DNC Party.

"My opinion is Ken Burns is a left leaning, progressive who has now endorsed Osambo. His pieces on WWII & Civil war as far as I'm concerned were biased and whiny and didn't thruthfully depict either. He has an agenda."

[Overdose]

Shit, this might sound cheezy but "gone w/the wind" shows some accurate depictions of how badly the south was treated and the ills of reconstruction. Early hollywood black/white films actually do a better job (though sanitized) at portraying some of the war.

I teach history, particularly of the military variety.

Basic, non-PC facts:

Attrocities occured on both sides..shit happens every war - it has since the first recorded battle at Meggido and always will.

Sherman's drive to the sea was meant to be the first test of total war and it succeeded. He wanted to break the back of the south. Though don't forget, prior to the war he was the Superintendant of the Louisana Military Institute (now LSU). Grant served w/Lee, Longstreet & Jackson at Vera Cruz in 1847 and had great affection for them. The northern generals were so brutal because they wanted to end the war as soon as possible - i.e. the more cruel and violent, the quicker it is over. Read Grant/Sherman's memoirs. I.E. War is hell.


Other Facts:

The South did have a constitutional argument for succession & Lincoln did suspend habeus corpus and only about 35% of northerners ever really supported the war. Most southerners did not own slaves. However, let's not romanticize the "glorious south" -- that's horse shit to. If they had had the upperhand the same shit would've happened in reverse - don't kid yourselves.

If the South had prevailed I highly doubt we'd be the super power we are today, we also would've probably fought that war again another couple times over border disputes, etc.

Finally, the south was eventually going to end slavery (according to Lee and many others) within about 20 yrs. Pat Cleburne and many other generals wanted to end it in the 1860s.

If you want to blame anyone for the CW look back at the original constitutional congresses - S.C. & GA would only sign on if slavery was left alone in 1788. In 1808 they were supposed to revisit the question and set some sort of time frame to drawdown slavery & also provide for it's prohibition in the newer territories. The question was eventually tabled for 50 yrs (McCulloch - founding brothers) until the late 1850s when the issue was going to come to a head - more for economic reasons between the Northern textile factories and the state of S.C. - who, in the late 1850s was probably the richest state in the union.

[Overdose]

One last thing - I agree - slavery as it was utilized in the South was not really the central issue of the war - that is a PC revisionist history ploy. The proposition of Slavery expanding to the new territories was the issue between North & South along w/tariffs on cotton. Slavery in the south and the nigger in general was a sidebar issue. It became an issue more so in 1863 in order for Lincoln to keep the Brits from siding w/the South. Purely political motives. Lincoln tried to send the fuckers home after the war.

[cherryblossom]

Shit, this might sound cheezy but "gone w/the wind" shows some accurate depictions of how badly the south was treated and the ills of reconstruction. Early hollywood black/white films actually do a better job (though sanitized) at portraying some of the war.

I teach history, particularly of the military variety.

Basic, non-PC facts:

Attrocities occured on both sides..shit happens every war - it has since the first recorded battle at Meggido and always will.

Sherman's drive to the sea was meant to be the first test of total war and it succeeded. He wanted to break the back of the south. Though don't forget, prior to the war he was the Superintendant of the Louisana Military Institute (now LSU). Grant served w/Lee, Longstreet & Jackson at Vera Cruz in 1847 and had great affection for them. The northern generals were so brutal because they wanted to end the war as soon as possible - i.e. the more cruel and violent, the quicker it is over. Read Grant/Sherman's memoirs. I.E. War is hell.


Other Facts:

The South did have a constitutional argument for succession & Lincoln did suspend habeus corpus and only about 35% of northerners ever really supported the war. Most southerners did not own slaves. However, let's not romanticize the "glorious south" -- that's horse shit to. If they had had the upperhand the same shit would've happened in reverse - don't kid yourselves.

If the South had prevailed I highly doubt we'd be the super power we are today, we also would've probably fought that war again another couple times over border disputes, etc.

Finally, the south was eventually going to end slavery (according to Lee and many others) within about 20 yrs. Pat Cleburne and many other generals wanted to end it in the 1860s.

If you want to blame anyone for the CW look back at the original constitutional congresses - S.C. & GA would only sign on if slavery was left alone in 1788. In 1808 they were supposed to revisit the question and set some sort of time frame to drawdown slavery & also provide for it's prohibition in the newer territories. The question was eventually tabled for 50 yrs (McCulloch - founding brothers) until the late 1850s when the issue was going to come to a head - more for economic reasons between the Northern textile factories and the state of S.C. - who, in the late 1850s was probably the richest state in the union.

Only in Ref. to your statement about you doubt we would be a super power do I wholeheartedly disagree. No niggers & we would be even more powerful.

There were countries watching that war that was pulling for us so imo I think we would be beyond the burden of AA & supporting niggers now without them even working for their food & shelter. At the least we knew what to do with them. Abe you will never know what you unleashed..and I hope sherman is still burning like he did the South.

[niggersarelowlife]

The saying goes, "The ones that win the war, write the books."

[skillet]

"Glory" - pure liberal propaganda bullshit. Those niggers were anything but noble, and with sincere apologies to our brethren in Massachusetts, the northeast, especially that liberal hotbed, MA, had no idea how the plantation system ran. It was easy for those "abolitionists" to sit there and pontificate, but truth be told, the niggers never had it so good.

and........I'm a "yankee"